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Jeff YorkÌý 0:14Ìý
Welcome to Creative distillation where we distill entrepreneurship research into actionable insights. I'm your host, Jeff York, joined as always with my colleague. Hey, Jeff.

Brad WernerÌý 0:24Ìý
I'm Brad Warner. And it's great to see you in this awesome spot that we picked today.

Jeff YorkÌý 0:28Ìý
Last episode, which you're gonna want to go back to, if you haven't heard because it's absolutely riveting, Chuck Easley from from Stanford as well as was really upset. But we did that the dig Center for Entrepreneurship, where Brad and I work at the University of Colorado in Boulder, and also the sponsor of this podcast, I should mention the Deming center and so we were in a conference room and I was mixing cocktails. I was doing a really great job on our producer Joel we're really enjoying the RONIS The Goonies I was mixing up I went home and I took the stuff for making the gurneys home. I made one for my wife, and she said man this Yeah, we are at under the sun. I almost had southern sun. But under the sun is in lovely table Mesa, Colorado where Brad has just moved. So this could be his local watering hole. We don't know yet.

Brad WernerÌý 1:15Ìý
Oh, yeah. No, this looks fantastic. But they I see the woodfired pizza oven in the background. And yeah, that's a beer in front of us. Great. So

Jeff YorkÌý 1:22Ìý
this week's kind of exciting. We are going to be talking beer with Matt Raleigh, the manager here at under the sun. And you know what, Brad? What's exciting is you know, the fall season is here. Yeah, this is the Fall Equinox are all Yeah, very excited. My happiest time of the year. I love the fall. You love the fall. And another reason you love the fall so much is because we're going to be sampling today. I know. You can't tell this just by looking at them. These are 1234566 different variations on pumpkin beer.

Brad WernerÌý 1:53Ìý
Matt told me it's not true. Six pumpkin beers,

Matt RowleyÌý 1:56Ìý
six pumpkin beers. You know? I know you're disappointed. We'll have to work on it for next.

Jeff YorkÌý 2:04Ìý
I'm really excited. I really. I mean, that is a tradition. pumpkin beer October, right? It's all pumpkin beer all the time.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 2:12Ìý
Yeah, we were thinking of changing the the sun in the mountain Sun logo. Just a big pump.

Jeff YorkÌý 2:18Ìý
Nice. Alright, this is dangerous because I don't want anybody to think that like under the sun only surface pump can

Unknown SpeakerÌý 2:23Ìý
be I just want to make Brad happy. No, just to clarify, we have zero pumpkin beers on as of now.

Brad WernerÌý 2:32Ìý
I totally believe Tim is great. I'm very, very happy.

Jeff YorkÌý 2:39Ìý
And this will come into play later. We can Yeah, that'd be perfectly okay. That's good. That's gonna come up later.

Brad WernerÌý 2:44Ìý
I swear to God, I was gullible there because you would pull something like that.

Jeff YorkÌý 2:47Ìý
I would. I tried. You did. Great. Thank you. So So we're here under the sun. The sun is a part of the mountain Sun family. Right, Matt? Absolutely. And I know that I know. Like the first time I ever came to Boulder. It was like, Hey, I'm a beer fan. And people are like, Oh, we got to get a mountain. So we went to mountain sun on the traditional location on Pearl Street. I drank a few beers just to sample a few things. Sure. And then the next day thought I was gonna die. Because I'd never been to altitude before drinking beer but but mountain Sun is like has a rich tradition here in Boulder. And I don't know if you guys know this has a really rich tradition with the lead School Business Entrepreneurship Program. Literally all of our PhD students go there. We all love it. And

Brad WernerÌý 3:32Ìý
you probably made 20 bucks.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 3:33Ìý
I'm not surprised. I spent about five years serving at Mountain Sun Bri COVID. And I'm sure I recognize more than a couple here.

Brad WernerÌý 3:41Ìý
I have a question about mountain sun. I believe I've been in there a few times. Is it the place that says hey, if you're able to at the end,

Unknown SpeakerÌý 3:48Ìý
what we do is we have traditionally up until COVID. We never accepted credit cards, okay, your cash or cheque only. So what it really was is we had a system called a Karma envelope. So if you came in, let's say you know your grandma, you're taking out your son and his fraternity brothers to dinner on a Friday night, right? And she whips out the AMEX to pay for everybody. Right? And she's a little shook. What do you tell her? Unfortunately, man, we we actually do not take credit cards. Well, the way we would resolve that situation we'd say worry nots miss, we have something called a Karma envelope. We're gonna send you home. We're gonna take none of your information. Complete honor system, you're gonna send us cash or check back in the mail. Have a great evening. We hope you enjoy your experience.

Brad WernerÌý 4:35Ìý
Yeah, yeah. So I'm from Chicago. And when I saw that I just about fell over. I'm thinking how does this business model work?

Unknown SpeakerÌý 4:41Ìý
I'm from Atlanta, that wouldn't work, right? Yeah, absolutely not. Yeah,

Brad WernerÌý 4:45Ìý
that's amazing that we ever stepped. Certainly right. But rarely, right. Rarely

Unknown SpeakerÌý 4:50Ìý
and I'll tell you that when those envelopes came back, there was a nice healthy tip and

Brad WernerÌý 4:54Ìý
I think it's great at Ball health. I remember this from five years ago.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 4:57Ìý
Yeah. And not only would there be a nice tip, but oftentimes You'd have a nice handwritten card. Oh, and you're just outlining, you know how welcome they felt, and how warm that made them feel that we had a system like that, what

Brad WernerÌý 5:11Ìý
a way to connect with your customers.

Jeff YorkÌý 5:11Ìý
I think that's incredible. And then the other thing I've always noticed, like, other than, you know, being a Grateful Dead, and so Joel here on Moscoso, fishes last tour for a while. So fish just played a phenomenal tour people. Never mind. So the theme, that sort of feeling of people that would like those bands would be perfectly at home, and also the service. That's what blew my mind, like the level of happiness that people have. I mean, I worked in the restaurant industry for a long time. I've never seen people so happy to be at work, nor so willing to like just help, like, you can be waited on by like eight different people during a visit to mountain Sun restaurant or you're under the sun. And tell us a little bit why. Why is it like that?

Unknown SpeakerÌý 5:54Ìý
Yeah, so we call it a team system. And it's the fundamental principle on which our whole company is built off of right? The idea is that everybody on the team is responsible for everything, nobody's above anyone else in any way. The payment is same across the board, all kitchen staff and all front of house staff make the same hourly wage, and we split the tips evenly between all front of house and back of house staff. So everybody is expected to pull the exact same weight. Everyone scrubs toilets, everyone does dishes, everyone bartender that includes the cooks. And sometimes we'll hop in the kitchen and help out too. That's awesome. And that principle, it means that we respect each other, that we have each other's backs, that when somebody gets, you know, in the weeds, if they get double set, triple set, I'm going to be right there, and it's a team, and they're going to be back to help me just the same scenario.

Brad WernerÌý 6:48Ìý
Yep. By the way, since I've moved here. This is about our weekend. Burger and Beer hang out. Every Saturday or Sunday. We're upstairs sitting outside on the tables. It's been awesome.

Jeff YorkÌý 6:58Ìý
Yeah, yeah, no, it's a girl. And that's why we've had like, five people ask us if we sit here. Yeah, right. It's just it's awesome. So and on top of all that, if you have not been to mountain Sun under the sun or southern sun, but there's other establishments outside of Boulder, right,

Unknown SpeakerÌý 7:15Ìý
correct. There's five pubs. Okay, so began in 1993 with the mountain Sun pub and brewery on Pearl Street, right. Then in I believe, 2001. We opened up our pub upstairs. It's called the southern Sun pub in South Boulder. It's a much larger version with a really beautiful patio with an excellent view of the flat is cool. And I want to say around 2008 We opened the Vine Street pub and brewery in Vine Street and uptown neighborhood of Denver. Oh, really? There have not been Vine Street is our primary brewing location. Okay. The secondary brewing location is upstairs. Its southern sun. Did you grow out of the old places? mountain scene is tiny, I think.

Brad WernerÌý 7:56Ìý
Yeah. So you were you were brewing on Pearl Street.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 7:58Ìý
We were originally brewing on Pearl Street, which if I were to take you back there would be shocking. Okay. It's

Jeff YorkÌý 8:03Ìý
insane. Like because I mean, you know, I've never been professional Burr. But that was like a homebrew or a beer judge. I would the first time I walked into mountain sun, and I saw there was like, I don't know, 18 beers on tap something like that. And I walked in the back of the bathroom and saw the brew house, like how the hell are these guys? And nobody was brewing at the time. So I'm like, how are they doing

Unknown SpeakerÌý 8:21Ìý
that? It's wild. And that's not even to mention the logistical you know, options that come with having to get things on the prowl. Yeah. And those alleyways. All that so yeah, we opened southern sun in 2001. And that became our brewery. Now it's our second largest brewery, find st is the largest one. Okay. And that's where we're currently doing all of our brewing. And then we opened this place. And I want to say like, 2011 2012 Yes, right after I moved. And for those listening, the podcast, this place is immediately underneath Southern, this is really cool. Building so southern suns on top onto the sun down.

Jeff YorkÌý 9:01Ìý
I don't know if this is the driver behind. But basically, a lot of times you can't get into southern sun. Like that's just pack Yeah. And sometimes you can't get in either of them. But this at least you know, you come down here is another option. It's also I've always felt that the atmosphere here was a little more tranquil. Like this is where I come for, like business meetings and Sorensen's where I go to like, hang out with like people to celebrate something. The way

Unknown SpeakerÌý 9:22Ìý
we sort of like to look at it is to unique rooms in the same grade home. Yep, yep. So yeah, we there is a intentionally different vibe down here. Yeah.

Brad WernerÌý 9:33Ìý
So back to your brewery, though. So the brewery in Denver? Does it just supply the restaurants or are you available anywhere else?

Unknown SpeakerÌý 9:39Ìý
Correct. We do no distribution route. There has been some limited distribution in the past. I remember I was at Boulder theatre show one time, and I was looking all the all the decorations in the wall and I found an article for our very famous Java Porter bottles. But that was I think 9495 was Article, we recently did a charitable project with upslope and I believe Avery where we didn't make six pack that was so supportive. South Pole. Yeah, right.

Brad WernerÌý 10:13 Ìý
I mean, and for our listeners I mean we are right next door craps grass. Yeah. And

Unknown SpeakerÌý 10:17Ìý
we are in the same shopping center.

Jeff YorkÌý 10:19Ìý
Yeah. Well, let's um, let's take some these incredible beers.

Brad WernerÌý 10:23Ìý
Thank god they're not pumped. I can't believe I fell for that.

Jeff YorkÌý 10:26Ìý
Here's a twist. They actually are. Oh,

Brad WernerÌý 10:30Ìý
I have no idea. I mean, I don't I don't even know. I had I had a nice really it's

Jeff YorkÌý 10:35Ìý
just like Game of Thrones. But on a podcast, people are just like twist within twist. All sorts of stuff. So where we start?

Unknown SpeakerÌý 10:42Ìý
We want to start I say drink it like a book. Okay, so left to right, top to bottom. Got it? So we're starting with what we call the heady broad Tober fest. Cheers, guys.

Jeff YorkÌý 10:52Ìý
Cheers. Happy October. Happy fall. Happy.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 10:55Ìý
Saturday. Okay.

Jeff YorkÌý 10:58Ìý
Oh, man. That's good. Awesome. Awesome aroma.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 11:02Ìý
Certainly a grassy aroma lightly toasted. Missing. Absolutely. European hops. Right. For sure. Kind of important to that more grassy aroma.

Jeff YorkÌý 11:13Ìý
Yeah, get the like Holly Tom maybe or something like that. Like really peppery, traditional Oktoberfest guy, huh? Yeah, I tried to make Oktoberfest for years with like ale yeast. And always sucks. If you were like, No, you can make an Oktoberfest or they'll use it and I taste their beer and it would suck too. And then I finally got like a chest reason to start logging. And then yeah,

Brad WernerÌý 11:34Ìý
I have to tell you, Oktoberfest beers are great. I love that kind of seasonal. May

Jeff YorkÌý 11:39Ìý
we'll do October 1 and still pumpkin beer. We can do that. Yeah, that'd be good.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 11:42Ìý
There's something to worry about. October fights in the fall. It's just Yeah.

Brad WernerÌý 11:46Ìý
For me fall is my favorite season. Just having it come around. food's good. Yeah, my German so I love all the brands and all the other stuff.

Jeff YorkÌý 11:53Ìý
That was awesome. Yeah. What's next?

Unknown SpeakerÌý 11:56Ìý
Next up is the number one Belgian Chappelle.

Brad WernerÌý 11:59Ìý
Oh, okay. So this isn't a build so we're gonna go sour here, right?

Unknown SpeakerÌý 12:02Ìý
No, no, no more floral. Oh, so

Brad WernerÌý 12:04Ìý
I was assumed Belgians were

Jeff YorkÌý 12:06Ìý
sour beers that you can do better than

Brad WernerÌý 12:10Ìý
what you educate me over a couple of bourbons? Am I supposed to remember that?

Jeff YorkÌý 12:13Ìý
Yeah, you're supposed to remember

Unknown SpeakerÌý 12:14Ìý
the most noteworthy aspect of a Belgian like this is gonna be Belgian yeast. Okay, and it's gonna give you a really floral aroma.

Jeff YorkÌý 12:22Ìý
Yeah. And you're also gonna shake it a little bit and get smoked. You're gonna get like a hot ethyl alcohol a little bit. And that's okay. Like in most beer, that would be like, problematic. But in Belgium beers. That's okay. Because it brewed to a really high street. I mean, what's the strength

Unknown SpeakerÌý 12:35Ìý
on this mat? Like, leave? It's 9.1. Is that the strongest for you?

Jeff YorkÌý 12:39Ìý
Oh, no.

Brad WernerÌý 12:42Ìý
Okay, no, I have no idea. This

Unknown SpeakerÌý 12:43Ìý
one on the line? Yeah, yeah, sure.

Jeff YorkÌý 12:44Ìý
Yeah. So this is why you see British people falling down whenever

Brad WernerÌý 12:50Ìý
I saw I would take number one over number two.

Jeff YorkÌý 12:52Ìý
Yeah, I would take number two over number one every day of the week.

Brad WernerÌý 12:56Ìý
But about you, Matt, would you have

Unknown SpeakerÌý 12:57Ìý
ever started this number two, which happens to be called number one. Tip number one. The first was my favorite beer. And as times gone on, I found myself drawn to the drier beer. Yeah. So I would go with that Oktoberfest personally.

Jeff YorkÌý 13:14Ìý
It's really it's got like a really sweet aftertaste to typical your Belgian strong ales. Certainly very nice. I would drink a lot

Brad WernerÌý 13:22Ìý
of that. Do competitions with these bears?

Unknown SpeakerÌý 13:24Ìý
Absolutely. We've won multiple gold medals, the JBf and plenty of other silver bronzes. We compete pretty regularly every single year in JBf. And we've had a great deal of success.

Brad WernerÌý 13:40Ìý
Yeah, so my son was a brewer and I actually came from Chicago to the Great American Beer Festival before I moved here. Oh, it is one of the most amazing things that we're saying.

Jeff YorkÌý 13:48Ìý
Oh my God, why are we not doing a podcast at the Great American Beer Festival? Dinner? No, we got to. Okay, we got so many great ideas now.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 13:56Ìý
Wondering I haven't heard anything about it. So I always in October, October. Yeah.

Jeff YorkÌý 14:02Ìý
So is the director of the Deming center is listening. Eric, we're gonna be going to Munich, and then we're gonna need to purchase like a VIP kind of situation. Oh, great. American beer definitely. Tried to be easy and cheap to acquire. I'm sure. Yeah. So there you go. Especially.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 14:19Ìý
One thing we actually do to help educate our staff is every single year we make sure every staff member who's available gets at least one free night. That's That's crazy. Brewers VIP access to JB Ellie. Yeah, every staff member every single staff member that's between all five pubs.

Jeff YorkÌý 14:37Ìý
Most people will understand what a big deal that is. You can't get into the great American restaurant much less Oh, no. I

Brad WernerÌý 14:42Ìý
mean, I remember the line was around. It's a huge building, whatever that it was around the building.

Jeff YorkÌý 14:46Ìý
Yeah, it's, you know,

Brad WernerÌý 14:48Ìý
I mean, it's

Unknown SpeakerÌý 14:48Ìý
a half a mile long. It's almost as hard as getting a fish ticket.

Jeff YorkÌý 14:51Ìý
Yeah, actually, I had three tickets. Anyway. So and I've also got a Halloween a lockdown, but I'm not sure we'll see.

Brad WernerÌý 15:00Ìý
Let's go with beer number three. Is that called number three is it?

Unknown SpeakerÌý 15:03Ìý
So this is the Colorado condo, huh? It's an American ESB. ESB, so yes, you better correct. But this is a very non traditional ESB.

Jeff YorkÌý 15:14Ìý
Yeah. So like, the traditional ESB is you go get one of these in the UK, it's gonna have a real strong acid all like butter, like flavor to it as part of the profile of the beer. This doesn't have as much cleaner, hence make it American. Lisa, think of that. But Matt, you tell me if I'm off

Unknown SpeakerÌý 15:29Ìý
correctly. I mean, when we call a beer of American version of anything, you're dealing with American Hops, which are much different than European hops and that they impart more. piney resinous citrusy was a different grouping of flavors that are imparted by American hops. And

Brad WernerÌý 15:46Ìý
so as a beer judge, Jeff, how do you rate number three, the ESB

Jeff YorkÌý 15:50Ìý
dude, I haven't judged a beer competition in like 10 years. But it's still you got the fantastic I mean, you know, if, as an American ESB, I don't? I don't know if that's a style or not, I don't think it'd be like an embryo is what they put in.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 16:04Ìý
To me. It's a hop Tambor, yeah, exactly. In a lot of ways. I mean,

Jeff YorkÌý 16:08Ìý
all their beers are fantastic. I mean, yeah. I mean, they'd all be like super high scoring.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 16:12Ìý
I certainly don't know, but there may not be a American ESB style. Great American here. Yeah, there may

Jeff YorkÌý 16:17Ìý
be last time I was 10 years ago.

Brad WernerÌý 16:20Ìý
So does your staff ever have input into the style of beer that the Brewers make in Denver?

Unknown SpeakerÌý 16:26Ìý
Our general staff, I wouldn't say has much to play in that we do include our staff in all areas of decision making in general, but with the beer, we have such a great brew staff that we let them handle that. Yeah.

Jeff YorkÌý 16:40Ìý
Is it fair to say it's color a con what you guys sell the most of maybe,

Unknown SpeakerÌý 16:44Ìý
you know, depends on the pub. Yeah. The majority of the pub sell, FYI, Pa Ye is actually next. Yeah, that's the highest. Our raspberry wheat or Blackberry wheat is our highest selling brands down in Denver. Really? Yeah. Huh.

Brad WernerÌý 16:59Ìý
What do you make of that?

Unknown SpeakerÌý 17:01Ìý
City Folk?

Jeff YorkÌý 17:02Ìý
Yeah, city, but Flatlander down there in Denver?

Brad WernerÌý 17:08Ìý
Did you just call Denver a cow town?

Jeff YorkÌý 17:10Ìý
Yeah. That you call Denver? I can't tell you. The guy from Chicago has always gotten Denver account. This is good. Well, this is just like, you know, to me, like the taste of Boulder brewery. Just like a pity IPA. Right. Great.

Brad WernerÌý 17:29Ìý
I'm still partial to number one, the Oktoberfest. I mean, that really resonated with me.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 17:33Ìý
Like, well, this is our highest seller. So this is on tap all year. And most of these actually are or at least

Jeff YorkÌý 17:40Ìý
a few of them. The last one is not correct. This

Unknown SpeakerÌý 17:44Ìý
FY pa stands for I'm not gonna curse but F Yes. Yes. Yeah. IPA. Love it. And yeah, this

Brad WernerÌý 17:51Ìý
actually remember that?

Jeff YorkÌý 17:51Ìý
Yeah. You guys. I mean, I don't know you do one or not. But there's not a hazy on the table. You guys.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 17:58Ìý
Not a hazy on the table. There is a hazy on the wall, though. Cool. Yeah, that was our first hazy we've ever done.

Jeff YorkÌý 18:03Ìý
Yeah, no, I was just wondering if like you were one of the you were like the only brewery in America that managed to not make.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 18:10Ìý
We lasted until about a month ago. Pretty good.

Jeff YorkÌý 18:13Ìý
That's as good as anyone's done. Because, I mean, I know a lot of breweries are kind of like over the whole hazy like thing, but it's just so people just want a hazy IPA as I can make it easy. They're

Unknown SpeakerÌý 18:23Ìý
certainly asked for Yeah, stylistically we do tend to stick a little bit more to the right. thing. And

Jeff YorkÌý 18:31Ìý
fish fans. That was delicious. Alright, so you're talking about favorites? Bread? Yep. Monster number one. The actual number one. Oh, number one? Yes. Only because I like Belgian so much. But I like them all. It seems like people what's your favorite beer might be called beer. Why would you

Brad WernerÌý 18:47Ìý
have a favorite? It is amazing though. The different styles, different flavors that you can get out of beer. Oh, it really is incredible. It's the most

Jeff YorkÌý 18:53 Ìý
incredibly flexible beverage like class have anything.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 18:55Ìý
It's interesting, educating a staff on beer. And you're teaching them about all these notes that you're getting out of beer, whether that's grass or pine or Yep, or fruit or whatever. And once they understand that this is just simply coming from yeast and hops and malts. None of those insane is in most cases, none of those things

Jeff YorkÌý 19:16Ìý
are actually the beer. pumpkin beer where you add the pumpkin because of that great, great pumpkin flavor.

Brad WernerÌý 19:24Ìý
Yeah, go to your local Starbucks.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 19:27Ìý
The Baltic Porter.

Jeff YorkÌý 19:28Ìý
Nice. Now that's not a style.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 19:31Ìý
This is a so this is a darker Porter. Well, that's good, but it's brewed with a lager ease, so cleans it up really nice.

Jeff YorkÌý 19:39Ìý
So good. This is good. Yeah, I like this to get down to under the sun and get yourself a black Araya that is so good.

Brad WernerÌý 19:46Ìý
What about what about people coming in just for tastings is that a large majority of your clientele or

Unknown SpeakerÌý 19:51Ìý
that was a much larger majority of our clientele pre COVID Really now, we do a lot of tourism business, particularly Pro st location, which is not open yet, we just haven't been able to staff to the levels that we need to. And it's a very small tight restaurant. Not ideal for any sort of capacity restrictions. That restaurant in particular was doing a lot, a lot of tastings. Gotcha. And upstairs and downstairs, these two restaurants here we were doing more when we were having a little more tourism. Yeah. So the locals know what they want JBf week we're doing a lot of tasters.

Jeff YorkÌý 20:26Ìý
And then the most famous month of the year, stout month. Yes. I

Unknown SpeakerÌý 20:35Ìý
had to throw these last two in Yeah, in honor of step one. What is

Jeff YorkÌý 20:40Ìý
February if you don't know these things,

Unknown SpeakerÌý 20:43Ìý
shortly, February is the slowest month for any restaurant. So to combat that the owners management long ago in the 90s decided, why don't we do something fun during February. So we made it stout month, we brew I want to say 30 Plus stout, it's just for the month. We have a ton of guest outs from breweries all across the country. So good, and it's by far our busiest month, the one from one of the busiest month. We're packed all day, every day. It's a total cult following. Yeah. We had a big thing. People cut their hair in the bullets. We do a chop competition where the staff and many customers would actually grow the biggest chops they can. At the end of the year, we'd have a big concert at the boulder theatre for charity and we'd have a competition for who could come up with the best character like chop Threepio for example, and one becomes mountainous on royalty.

Jeff YorkÌý 21:42Ìý
How can you not love?

Brad WernerÌý 21:43Ìý
How creative is that? I

Jeff YorkÌý 21:44Ìý
mean, that is going to come here since

Brad WernerÌý 21:46Ìý
we started but think about the creative thinking about taking your slowest month and making it into your busiest. Yeah, Jess was

Jeff YorkÌý 21:53Ìý
making 30 stouts is what? Yeah, that's an undertaker. Oh, Scout stout. It's my favorites. Like based on the Thin Mint Girl Scout cookie. I just love that beer so much. I can't have this for myself month. I think this was on carova

Unknown SpeakerÌý 22:07Ìý
This is a longtime staple here. Milk stout.

Jeff YorkÌý 22:11Ìý
Ooh, that's awesome. Well, almost like a Scotch like finish on the back end. Yeah,

Brad WernerÌý 22:16Ìý
these are different man. Yeah, man.

Jeff YorkÌý 22:19Ìý
Yeah, nice sweetness. Back for stout month and do a podcast. I

Brad WernerÌý 22:22Ìý
think we should I love that.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 22:24Ìý
We just pushed it to April this year. Oh, you did? Okay. Yeah. Okay, this coming year, you know, it's taking a little while to ramp up our brewing operations. That and stout month is an all year endeavor. So you start brewing for next month, right after February. So we weren't quite prepared to this year it will be in April, will return to tradition. There's something

Jeff YorkÌý 22:43Ìý
about being down on Pearl Street on like a really cold snowy night, like Tuesday night or like a really slow night while still prescribes a salad and going into mountain sun and like just trying as many styles as you can. I don't know. That's just sort of a tradition for me. It's glad to hear that Justice February for me.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 23:03Ìý
I agree. It's a it's a nice, warm bill.

Jeff YorkÌý 23:06Ìý
A little bit. Brad's not sympathetic.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 23:08Ìý
If you cry, I'm gonna cry.

Jeff YorkÌý 23:10Ìý
Oh, it's like it's a special thing, man. This is fantastic. Man. It is for you so much for joining us, like, so how is COVID Like if you guys be able to pivot out of it and be able to get things going again, because we're always worried about our local businesses and trying to support them as much as we can.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 23:25Ìý
Honestly, it has been a greater challenge than we thought, hmm. We have a lot of momentum. And we're doing a great job in rebuilding our staffs. We're really grateful for the fact that we were lucky enough to own a couple of buildings that we have. I mean, we were around for 27 years before the pandemic and we had some serious institutional memory. We had a really strongly imbued culture throughout. And we were really lucky that a lot, a lot of us stuck around. And a lot of great employees are still here to teach and carry that forward. Yeah. But it has been a greater challenge to get staff. Yeah. than we thought. And training this many people at once is very difficult for our great I

Brad WernerÌý 24:09Ìý
was here last Saturday, there was a trainee, actually, with one of the waitresses, yeah,

Unknown SpeakerÌý 24:13Ìý
we're really lucky that we have such a great relationship with our community and we want to do everything to support them. They're doing everything to support us. So it's a slower process. And we thought, like I said, two of our restaurants are still not open the mountain sun and Vine Street in Denver. Okay, so lunch is now open either. We're brewing there, but we're not open for service.

Jeff YorkÌý 24:34Ìý
Yeah, but still good do so that squares at least that square footage getting utilized when

Unknown SpeakerÌý 24:38Ìý
you think of a restaurant, like Vine Street that's quite large. Yeah, you're probably talking I would say at least 8090 employees to get that really going up. And we just have a little bit of a problem hiring five or six employees down here. So so it's gonna be it's gonna take a while.

Brad WernerÌý 24:56Ìý
You know what though? The community supports you, right? You we all stick together through this All the things that we've seen in the last year, we're all in it together. And I think that every every time that I drive by here community still supporting you though,

Unknown SpeakerÌý 25:07Ìý
we certainly feel that that's very palpable. They're here. We love them. We love seeing them. I remember the first few weeks of reopening the southern Sun upstairs was joyous. Yeah, there was like, everyone was really happy to see each other be out back in the world. Sure, drinkin FYI. It felt really

Jeff YorkÌý 25:29Ìý
it's just been awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you for these awesome beers. If you can hear this you can get here come to under the sun. More Southern Star southern staff Blanca

Unknown SpeakerÌý 25:40Ìý
peak in Longmont? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, I forgot. That's the other one that's open, great.

Jeff YorkÌý 25:44Ìý
Get to one of those establishments, and you will taste some amazing beers, and you will meet some of the nicest people working anywhere in Colorado. Make sure you go out and support them. Thanks for having us. It's been great. Thanks.

Unknown SpeakerÌý 25:53Ìý
Thank you very much.

Jeff YorkÌý 25:55Ìý
That's our pleasure. Thank you. Alright, so that concludes our tasting of beers here at under the sun. What do you think, Brad?

Brad WernerÌý 26:04Ìý
Well, first of all, I, the community spirit that you feel when you walk in here, and just the personality of the staff, the mats and the friendliness? Yeah, that's incredible.

Jeff YorkÌý 26:14Ìý
I mean, yeah, really, it really is like, amazing. There's better service here than literally any brewery I've ever been anywhere, or any restaurant for that matter. I mean, it's a casual place, but you feel like you're part of a family when you come here. I'm just excited to be

Brad WernerÌý 26:28Ìý
here. And you know that I'm not a sophisticated beer drinker. You are coming in here and doing a sampling afternoon and that type of thing. That's a blast.

Jeff YorkÌý 26:36Ìý
Yeah, absolutely, man. Good nerd try some beers. So I highly recommend black Araya the Baltic Porter. Holy cow. That's good.

Brad WernerÌý 26:43Ìý
Yeah. And I personally am all over the Oktoberfest. That's just you like what you like right now?

Jeff YorkÌý 26:49Ìý
And that's fine. Yeah. Anyway, to the one time I really didn't want Brad to read the paper at all. I really didn't. Because I have a special a special is this. Join us today for a special episode of Korean distillation. Those of you there to that in the 80s they had special editions, it was always about some kid using drugs on family. So nobody's gonna understand what the hell I'm talking about. I guess we should talk about the paper. So Brad actually did read the paper today. Enough for me the day I didn't want him to because I have a special thing plan. So Brad, why don't you introduce the paper introduce that you'll have the title that I do not have a title to the title, your thoughts? Today we are focusing this is a little bit interesting. So Brad, there's these things that we do that we that we we academics with because you know, it's a special episode of

Brad WernerÌý 27:38Ìý
creativeness. I thought maybe fish fan.

Jeff YorkÌý 27:42Ìý
There is an academic conference about fish, though, we should get to

Brad WernerÌý 27:46Ìý
know your on your own on that one.

Jeff YorkÌý 27:47Ìý
Oh my god. So there's a thing that academics do when they want to get together and explore a topic in depth called a special issue. So you have all these journals as you've become aware of that's very expensive, 4950 to 50 plus tax and shipping handling journals, they're out there and will happen is a group of people get together and say, Hey, let's do a special issue. So when you put together a special issue, you write an introduction to it. And you review the papers that are in your specialty. So these guys that wrote this paper we're talking about today are the editors of the specialist, okay. Usually it's people that have published a great many papers and have some standing in the field. And they get together and they say, we're gonna put this out, we're gonna add it. They're often editors at journals. But it's a special issue of strategic entrepreneurship journal called entrepreneurship at the crossroads meta analysis is a foundation a path forward. And so the article we're gonna be talking about, is he talking about a bunch of different papers as an introduction to special issue, but the Introduction The editors are James G comes to Russell crook, David J. Cochin. And Mike Wright. And so I'm gonna try to make sure I mentioned all the papers in this special issue, but may not as you can tell, so I'll do my best. But I've taken notes, Jeff, okay, I saw Brad write something down. That was exciting. So So go check it out. It actually is a really cool, special issue. So meta analysis. Right now, I've introduced the paper. What were your notes about the introduction of the paper, Brad, because this was pretty entertaining.

Brad WernerÌý 29:12Ìý
So actually, Jeff, I read the introduction, which is two or three paragraphs, I have two items that I selected out of there, number one that I took out of that paragraph. This is quote, by the way, difficult for entrepreneurs to leverage academic findings. Yes.

Jeff YorkÌý 29:25Ìý
So you agree with that, right?

Brad WernerÌý 29:27Ìý
How do you not agree with that? Well, I

Jeff YorkÌý 29:29Ìý
mean, many people, yes. I mean, here's the thing, like, I thought you would like this article, because these guys are saying what you're always saying is like, Yeah, but da. But most people don't. But you gotta understand, Brad, a lot of researchers don't believe that. They think like, oh, this is just fine. The way we're going along this right. And

Brad WernerÌý 29:45Ìý
then if we can help them focus, yeah, so yeah, I have 100% agree with this, that it's difficult for entrepreneurs to leverage academic findings. We haven't found that many academic findings that actually apply to entrepreneurs, but that's a whole different podcast, but

Jeff YorkÌý 29:58Ìý
no, no Because today's podcast is a special episode. Alright, so we got some feedback from the director of the Dimmick Sarah that we should have actionable insights every what's the cadence every 20 minutes,

Brad WernerÌý 30:10Ìý
three takeaways, three takeaway. And then one major action, action once I do

Jeff YorkÌý 30:14Ìý
I got not one braid I got through my second Oh, no, but then we were just gonna skip that.

Brad WernerÌý 30:19Ìý
But go ahead. No second bullet points, right. much about works in traditional organizations is likely to work quite differently in entrepreneurial environments. Yes, da, da. Yeah. Right.

Jeff YorkÌý 30:31Ìý
But again, Brad, these gentlemen that wrote this paper and put together a special issue who you're not, you know, I know you're making fun, but but really, I mean, they these are really good scholars. These are folks who have control. Yeah, of course. And that's not taken for granted. In the field of strategy.

Brad WernerÌý 30:48Ìý
It blows me away. And that crazy.

Jeff YorkÌý 30:52Ìý
Actually, folks out there and doubting, maybe that would argue, yeah, entrepreneurship is just another, why would we need that we have strategy. We have organizational behavior. Why is entrepreneurship appealed?

Brad WernerÌý 31:03Ìý
I think we scare him. I actually do.

Jeff YorkÌý 31:06Ìý
Well, that's actually that, but that is a topic for a different pocket. Yeah. But okay. So what I want to do today, something totally different. Okay, get ready, we're going to do a quiz. So rather than going through the insights in this paper, and they're all in there, okay, what happens is, there are five papers or meta analyses in this special issue. A meta analysis simply means people go out and they get all the papers that were ever written about a topic. They put them together to do quantitative statistical analysis to tease out insights from them that are generalizable. And I mean, yeah, this is

Brad WernerÌý 31:37Ìý
mansplaining. Once a meta analysis,

Jeff YorkÌý 31:40Ìý
why do we care about meta knows bottom line

Brad WernerÌý 31:42Ìý
is you take a very, very broad range of data, and how does it apply to specific cases?

Jeff YorkÌý 31:47Ìý
Right? But why is it better than like a single study? Oh, come on, because

Brad WernerÌý 31:51Ìý
it's not significant, right? You can have you can have so many variables with individual significant studies that you need a group of studies to actually give you some sort of direction perfect. And

Jeff YorkÌý 32:00Ìý
they took a little bit of a specific lens towards meta analysis in this special case, where they compared entrepreneurs and entrepreneurial firms, to managers, employees and non entrepreneurial organizations, existing organization. So let me get my buzzer right here. Okay, so here we go. How much time do I love that? Yeah. As much time as you as you, like, the submarine is going down. So So Brad, yes, sir. Tell me this, which is a bigger driver of success for employees and managers.

Brad WernerÌý 32:28Ìý
Okay, so wait a second. We're talking plays a manager? Manage firms. Yeah, of

Jeff YorkÌý 32:31Ìý
large firms are no, no. But every hire you want the general mental ability or emotional intelligence, I would say

Brad WernerÌý 32:38Ìý
number one, general mental ability

Jeff YorkÌý 32:43Ìý
actually access Correct.

Brad WernerÌý 32:49Ìý
Anyway, okay, first of all, let me just say how many managers have you met in large organizations with any emotional intelligence? Ah,

Jeff YorkÌý 32:58Ìý
not not many. Right. And usually they do stand out because that was a gimme question. Okay. Okay. So, so, okay, but more importantly, how about for entrepreneurs?

Brad WernerÌý 33:07Ìý
Emotional intelligence is the key.

Jeff YorkÌý 33:11Ìý
Most my clapping Yeah, that's correct. actionable insight, actionable insight. It is more important for entrepreneurs to understand how to work with people and understand and have empathy for them than it is for them to have general intelligence.

Brad WernerÌý 33:27Ìý
I totally agree. I mean, and I think that that's common sense. I hope it's common sense.

Jeff YorkÌý 33:31Ìý
Common Sense, Brad. That's like, that's something that you know, the people look at Steve Jobs and Elon Musk is Oh, that guy's a freakin genius. I think Elon Musk has any emotion whatsoever. I

Brad WernerÌý 33:40Ìý
do like it that he smokes weed occasionally with Sure. TV, right? Yeah. All seriousness though, I actually pushed my students to understand that about themselves to lead with empathy, and understanding. And if you and if you live your life like that people will stick with you for forever.

Jeff YorkÌý 33:56Ìý
That's true. It's actually probably good advice for managers. But here's what's interesting. The meta analysis shows that general mental ability is actually more important for success for managers employees in a large organization. Yeah. So this is a really, I mean, you know, I know we kid around Eliza doesn't usually what you get, or I think most of this stuff is useful for entrepreneurs and others, but but I think this is actually pretty useful because our students don't necessarily come into

Brad WernerÌý 34:22Ìý
Yeah, so let's just talk about a large organizations. Is that a cultural issue?

Jeff YorkÌý 34:25Ìý
I don't know. They don't get into that. But I wonder if it's more that like, because there's an existing structure and path dependency all around you and really to figure out how to succeed in a large organization. It's basically like, in my humble opinion, learning to play survivor, which actually requires a lack of emotional intelligence really gotta be ruthless. Yeah, exactly. Whereas I feel like for entrepreneurs, if they can't relate to people, no matter how brilliant they are, and we see this all the time in like, aerospace are

Brad WernerÌý 34:55Ìý
brilliant in their their lane. Yeah, we have we have brilliant PhDs

Jeff YorkÌý 34:57Ìý
in chemistry and robotics. and everything else at University of Colorado, and we bring them in our classes and we really need to put them together with like an MBA. Not that all MBAs have. But many have good a diverse team. Right, Jeff? Diversity. Right. So I think this is actually I mean, would you agree that is an actionable insight? 100%.

Brad WernerÌý 35:15Ìý
Okay. Yeah, we got ya pulled one out of me. Yeah. Thank you. I'll give myself a hand.

Jeff YorkÌý 35:21Ìý
Yes. Okay. Um, the next question, how does stress affect employees and managers? Is it negative impact on them or positive impact?

Brad WernerÌý 35:30Ìý
Well, first of all, we're still talking about a large organization employs managers in large organizations under stress is negatively effect some of course, yeah,

Jeff YorkÌý 35:37Ìý
absolutely. I don't have the clapping thing. Well done. Well done, Brett. I can't. Competent I am, I can't make my phone clap. I can only make it but

Brad WernerÌý 35:49Ìý
I do like the Hunt for Red October buzzer

Jeff YorkÌý 35:52Ìý
come take a class from me and a man who cannot make his iPhone clap. Alright, so now what is the impact of stress on entrepreneurs? Super negative.

Brad WernerÌý 36:02Ìý
So I would say actually, for me, it was a motivating factor. But I can't speak for all entrepreneurs. But I'm gonna say stress actually is a it's a part of being an entrepreneur. So I would say they embrace it.

Jeff YorkÌý 36:15Ìý
You're right, mostly. So it's actually positive to neutral for entrepreneurs. So you're right, of course. But this is interesting, because a man analysis teases out some more specific effects, heavy demands, and long hours don't hurt entrepreneurs. It doesn't hurt their performance, as you would expect, right? They're putting more into it. And they're the only person there. But it also doesn't hurt their well being. However, role ambiguity does hurt them. So we've got two kinds of stress gone. One is just from working hard. The other is for lack of ambiguity about what your role is. Yeah. But interesting, the role ambiguity harms their well being but doesn't actually harm their performance, both kinds of stress harm employees, actually, I

Brad WernerÌý 36:56Ìý
think that if you embrace uncertainty, I think you'll do much better, right? If you know what's coming, right, versus it creeping up on you and say, I'm not sure where I fit or what I want to do. I think that there are methods to get around that to help you actually make money. I

Jeff YorkÌý 37:09Ìý
think so too. I think what's happening here is related to a study, I'd love to get Aaron Powell on here. At some point. She's an amazing scholar, that does studies of entrepreneurial teams, I forum will get her on here, you'll really like her. Okay, great. But she did this study where she showed that people really get stressed out when there aren't clear delineations of roles as a company grows.

Brad WernerÌý 37:31Ìý
I think you could train that into people, though. Yeah, early on,

Jeff YorkÌý 37:34Ìý
okay with it. But as the company starts to grow, and I wonder if that's driving the effect here, it's like you and I started company, at first, hey, it's just Brad and just company, we're doing everything. But eventually we're going to need to carve up tasks and ambiguity in the roles is going to be discussed. I think that's why a lot of

Brad WernerÌý 37:48Ìý
founders leave their company. I've actually lived that, Jeff, cool.

Jeff YorkÌý 37:51Ìý
I figured you had Yeah. Alright. So you, I'll give you that one. You are two for two. Brad is just as I expected here. Question number three, do entrepreneurs that receive corporate venture capital do better or worse, in terms of their one performance and exit? And to technological innovation? So if they received corporate venture capital forever, they do better in terms

Brad WernerÌý 38:12Ìý
of performance and exit performance and exit? Yes. And what was the second one? Technological innovation? I am not certain about that, actually. Okay. Fair

Jeff YorkÌý 38:21Ìý
enough. I won't budge you for that. You're right. Here's what's interesting. If you look at this, they're like mixed results on the effects of corporate venture capital. And what the folks that do this meta analysis do is they say, it's actually because you're looking at multiple dependent variables, right. And so saying what's better or worse, it depends on what your dependent variable is, which is why we have mixed results. It turns out receiving corporate venture capital, they do better in performance and exit, just as you'd expect. They get access to companies with deep knowledge, deep resource deep pockets. They're variable, their forum, they have a buffer, they're able to exit. That's right. But they do worse in innovation. And here's the theory why. And I'm sorry, I'm not attributing this to folks go read this. Actually, Jeff. Well, fantastic, I find something that is interesting to you. Besides, besides the beer, they do worse in innovation, the ideas, okay, so we have an innovative company with a patent pending technology, we take corporate venture capital, the idea is that when we take that corporate venture capital, the company that's investing in us is not investing because of the company. They're investing because our innovation, which they consequentially are going to focus all of our efforts on and then suck up and utilize.

Brad WernerÌý 39:30Ìý
So I think it's very interesting. And I would say the takeaway for entrepreneurs is early on when you're starting your company, you need to make a decision about which way do you want to go? Are you doing this for an exit, right five year plan? Or is this something that maybe would be multi generational with your family and those types of things? Yeah. And those decisions early on, make a big difference in are quite different paths

Jeff YorkÌý 39:49Ìý
forward. This is what I always talk about. And my guests, their venture capitalists, I strongly disagree and we would love to add anybody from the venture capital community on here to talk about why they would disagree with I could bring a bunch of them likenesses, I know you could, but what I was gonna say is like the day you decide to take venture capitalist day you decide to sell your company.

Brad WernerÌý 40:06Ìý
That's right. Because the five year clock is going,

Jeff YorkÌý 40:09Ìý
you have basically decided that we're not going to keep this company going beyond a certain period of time, and we are going to have to sell it. And so that's something you really need to think about. And here's our actionable insight right here. Alright, there it is, every 20 minutes, we're gonna have an actionable insight. There. I had one, I didn't have the ding dong going. Okay. So corporate venture capital is better taken by firms that are not dependent on their innovations for success. Because if you're really dependent on your innovation the day you take corporate venture capitalist day, you more or less, I mean, I know that's not what said, and then NDA, is that what it said in the corporate? Right? He basically decided to sell that innovation.

Brad WernerÌý 40:48Ìý
And I would say that a lot of times when you're talking and taking on VC capital, they already may have a match for you in their head. Yeah, right.

Jeff YorkÌý 40:56Ìý
Right. Especially a corporate Oh, yeah, we're in the match. So I think that's an actionable insight. I think if you're in a company that, you know, really does not depend on a potentially technological innovation or anything like that corporate venture capital might be pretty interest because it might be right. It might be the company's just trying

Brad WernerÌý 41:09Ìý
to display but you lose control that data. Yeah, you do a lot of control,

Jeff YorkÌý 41:13Ìý
I should say you do. But if your goal is to exit, it's the right move. Alright, cool. Awesome. Brad is kicking ass. Just as I expected, I expected nothing less. So question number four, evaluate each one of these questions is based on one study in the special issue. Core, what is more important for driving performance under agglomeration? Right, so you're familiar with the idea of agglomeration? I am not I'm really okay. I'm surprised but the agglomeration is just a fancy term for a cluster, okay. Like, you know, Boulder would have agglomeration and organic and natural foods got renewable energy tech, okay, you know, all right. So what is more important for driving performance under agglomeration or in clusters, supply side skilled workers and knowledge? So the theory there being like, okay, because you come to Boulder or wherever, and you're starting this kind of company, you got skilled workers knowledge spillover via university with Exactly, yeah. Or is it demand side? There's lots of customers in that area.

Brad WernerÌý 42:09Ìý
Think about this one for a second. Sure. But I think it's a little I actually think it's a little of both. Okay, I think it's more of the supply side, though. If I have to pick one. Do I get buzzed?

Jeff YorkÌý 42:19Ìý
Here we go. There we go. Yeah, actually, no. Yeah. Supply side. And

Brad WernerÌý 42:24Ìý
by the way, let me just let me just say my reasoning, though.

Jeff YorkÌý 42:29Ìý
You're actually right.

Brad WernerÌý 42:32Ìý
I was using boulder as an example in my head. I'm sorry. They're both important. Yeah. But I do think that when you're talking about those early customers, you want those in your backyard.

Jeff YorkÌý 42:42Ìý
Yeah. Now here's what changed. Okay, I really, genuinely can buzz that. Okay, start with the man analysis shows? Well, they might be wrong. They will. They might be but they did a meta analysis. And you said Here drink a beer. And

Brad WernerÌý 42:56Ìý
we might want

Jeff YorkÌý 42:59Ìý
to get these guys going one on one. Alright. So I think this is really interesting. The supply side skilled workers and knowledge is definitely predictive of driving innovation. Makes sense? I mean, that's the whole argument. If I can get skilled workers in my industry, I can get the demand side, lots of customers are actually agglomeration both supply and demand has no impact on financial performance. I think that's fascinating. Because I always think there's blows me away. I know, me, too. I'm kind of surprised by this one. I mean, I'm trusting in this day, from what I can tell these studies were very well done. Okay, that's fine.

Brad WernerÌý 43:34Ìý
That's fine. That's why That's why Yeah, no, this is interesting. But I want to talk about this for a second. Do you buy that?

Jeff YorkÌý 43:38Ìý
I don't have any reason to doubt the study. And they did. I mean, they took the LD says appendix

Brad WernerÌý 43:42Ìý
that one, I'd like to learn more.

Jeff YorkÌý 43:44Ìý
Okay, so we'll look at that one. Maybe we'll get these folks on. And yes, next time, I'm sure. I mean, it'd be great. Actually, I think this actually, that relates to the studies are well done. This one's the most interesting because it's kind of like a surprise to be up. And here's even more interesting. This one, I understand. agglomeration actually has a negative impact on growth. I buy that.

Brad WernerÌý 44:04Ìý
I actually do too, but I'm looking at it in a different way. Let's just use the boulder food scene as an example. Right. We're both familiar with. Yeah. So agglomeration in our town, right of those types of businesses. Absolutely. And I would say that the VC world looks at these folks that need 100% growth a year to be investable, at least. Right. But I wonder what poaching happens, right? If you get similar businesses, I'm a little bit confused on how to articulate this. But I am a little bit confused on that finding truthfully,

Jeff YorkÌý 44:34Ìý
well, it's surprising. I think I understand the negative impact on growth. So let's say you and I start Brad and Jeff's organic brewing supplies, okay, and we move here to Boulder right now, on the plus side, we can get people that are really familiar with organic certification, we can get workers who are gonna be passionate about the organic foods industry, as evidenced by our 20 some odd episodes. The podcast we get people passionate about season three, season three episodes. To hear of creative destruction brought to you by The Deming Center for Entrepreneurship at the Leeds School of Business at the ¾«Æ·SMÔÚÏßӰƬ, and we got one more actionable insight coming. I hope it hasn't been 20 minutes, right o'clock here. But here's the problem. Because we moved to Boulder, we are competing for those resources with all these other startups are also looking to target those same people. And people are focusing resources into the most promising bets here in town. So we're not the most promising bet, because I can tell you right now, organic brewing supplies is not going to compete with the next Justin butters, like the average consumer goods that's targeting people, people that are making beer are not necessarily thinking about their health. They're just obvious.

Brad WernerÌý 45:41Ìý
Let me counter though. Okay, sure. Early adopters, right, you're looking for the early adopter scene. I think that when you talk about consumers that expect new products to come out, they're willing to try. Yeah, so I do think that it may give you an edge in that respect,

Jeff YorkÌý 45:56Ìý
but not according to this study.

Brad WernerÌý 46:00Ìý
You see my point, though, about in a sense, a sophisticated buyer,

Jeff YorkÌý 46:03Ìý
but do you think it really matters? I do, actually. Really? Yes. I mean, we're selling that product, we're not gonna be a selling it locally. I mean, no,

Brad WernerÌý 46:11Ìý
but you need to get that feedback loop early. And you can get it that way. And other other places, it's much more difficult.

Jeff YorkÌý 46:18Ìý
I mean, I think here in town, when I think about that, think about like, getting into local, like food stores and things like that and going to farmers markets, and all those kinds of things that can that can be really helpful. Yeah, that early feedback is critical. Yeah, I agree. Okay, here we go. actionable insight. And Somebody's at the door. Yeah. Now, that's the actionable insight coming in the door, like, you know, let you know, it's here. Come on, man. So according to this, it would say young ventures and high tech benefit more from agglomeration than those are not. I think that I mean, that's what we would take from this paper. Brad doesn't quite buy it. But fair enough. That's that's the insight you can take from this, you know, and I could definitely see there being a tendency. I see as a my own research, I might talk about it specifically for Well, I guess I am talking about for businesses want to collaborate with people that have the similar lightcap moral right. Ooh, big like that. I don't think that's

Brad WernerÌý 47:11Ìý
what about you talk about agglomeration in high tech, though, you're talking about that's a funding hub as well. So that also may be a little bit different, right. So you're talking to customers, but they measure

Jeff YorkÌý 47:20Ìý
specifically the skilled workers and knowledge here is the driver and that's the one they find the statistically significant relationship, right. Well,

Brad WernerÌý 47:27Ìý
they'll agree to disagree. Well,

Jeff YorkÌý 47:28Ìý
that's fair enough. Question number five. Our last question. I know this is actually very topical in your class. Okay. What is more important for entrepreneurs for idea generation? So not not for financial success? Just generating ideas?

Brad WernerÌý 47:41Ìý
Didn't we talk about this in a previous podcast?

Jeff YorkÌý 47:43Ìý
I don't remember but probably we'd we did. What we we

Brad WernerÌý 47:48Ìý
marijuana.

Jeff YorkÌý 47:48Ìý
So though we did but this this study was not about weed. General human capital. In other words, just education level, or specific human capital experience and knowledge of a specific area?

Brad WernerÌý 47:58Ìý
Yeah, I would say be

Jeff YorkÌý 48:00Ìý
you to be yes. No, that's wrong, Brad. I'm afraid it's a both Haha.

Brad WernerÌý 48:09Ìý
Yeah, I got a pitch for these guys. Okay, but that is a special paper. I'd like to see an unspecial paper. Come on. Now.

Jeff YorkÌý 48:17Ìý
This is what's interesting here. Okay. So they both actually are important for generating ideas. Okay. But specific human capital is the only part that matters for them actually forming the belief that the idea is viable.

Brad WernerÌý 48:30Ìý
Okay, so maybe I gotta get a 50%. Oh, you know,

Jeff YorkÌý 48:33Ìý
yeah, you get 50%. I'm just screwing around. Yeah. So yeah. Oh, no. No, I do I actually thought Great. Okay, you think?

Brad WernerÌý 48:46Ìý
So the Insight is, when you're talking about a very technical specific issue, problem solve, that actually makes total sense that you need the expertise of the people that are brilliant in their lanes to help solve the problem. But you also need more generalists to allowing a capable execution? Yeah,

Jeff YorkÌý 49:05Ìý
I think that's right. Yeah, I think it makes sense. Like, okay, so if you're, I think the real acumen side of take care is like, yes, getting an education is useful. But it's Hello, despite the efforts of many in our country, going to college and getting a degree is useful in your eyes, and educates you to see opportunities that you might not see otherwise, you're exposed to other ideas and all that

Brad WernerÌý 49:26Ìý
good stuff. But I would say specifically, a liberal arts education is very useful. Yeah,

Jeff YorkÌý 49:30Ìý
I would say that too, even though we both are working at a business school. But yeah, no, I think we agree. 100%. Like, you know, getting a broad education is really important. But to figure out if your idea is actually going to work, you need to get some very specific knowledge of that area. Yes. Yeah. So this is why I think it's so important, and we don't talk about this in theoretical terms. But I think it's important that entrepreneurs think about doing things in spaces they know something about Yeah, hell we know, I know, but right but like, how many how many people do you see like, Brad, let me tell you But my great idea. Yeah, that's a great idea for Google. Yeah. Terrible idea for you. That's right. If we're talking to someone about about like that you were just talking about, and both of us like drinking beer, and we're going to start our brewing supply company. So what Yeah, right. Well, yeah. I like watching hockey, so I'm going to get better hockey equipment like, no, that doesn't work that way. You got to actually know something. All right, Brad. So I would say you were at least three and a half for five, maybe, maybe maybe two for five? I don't know. Something like that.

Brad WernerÌý 50:30Ìý
I would think I'm six or five.

Jeff YorkÌý 50:31Ìý
I think you I think you are, I think I think you blew the acid out of this test, as I said, but

Brad WernerÌý 50:35Ìý
I appreciate the test. And I haven't had it tested a long time. So this felt good. Hope you had fun.

Jeff YorkÌý 50:39Ìý
I thought it would be it was great. It was great. So again, if you enjoyed our pop quiz, you wanna check out the paper for yourself, which I do highly recommend. Check out the introduction, we're gonna be having an author's paper number four on here, which I won't look up right now, because we're already running over time, I'm sure. But the paper and the special issue is strategic entrepreneurship journal, entrepreneurship at a crossroads meta analysis as a foundation path toward the summary article interviewed by James combs, Russell Cook, Dave, Kevin, and Mike. Right. So

Brad WernerÌý 51:06Ìý
awesome. So thanks, fellows, Jan.

Jeff YorkÌý 51:08Ìý
Oh, you drink your October 1. I love working on mine. This was fantastic. Thank you so much under the sun. Thanks very much to Matt rally for having us here. It's been fantastic. Thanks to our producer Joel is always thanks to the Demmings enterprise, for bringing us to please write to us at CD podcast@colorado.edu. And if you want to help us out, just like the podcast, click the little button. Wherever you're listening to podcasts. Yeah, it doesn't take long click the little Like button. If you really want to help us out with this very special edition of screen distillation. Then what you need to do is you need to write a review and it could it could be as short as man, Jeff is so smart. And Brad is just so annoying. Why don't we just have a podcast with Jeff that'd be a great review to write.

Brad WernerÌý 51:47Ìý
And I would also add, Jeff, that people would actually like us to answer a question or shoot us an email. It'd be it'd be fun,

Jeff YorkÌý 51:54Ìý
and we're more than happy. If you're in the area. We can come to you. We're more than happy to have you on the podcast if you're interested. Yeah, be great. All right. Cheers. Cheers, man. Take care. All right. Make sure you come and visit under the sun.

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